CNN Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer - Transcript

CNN Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer Transcript
January 4, 2004 Sunday

HEADLINE: Interview With Richard Gephardt; Interview With Christopher Cox, Jane Harman

GUESTS: Richard Gephardt, Christopher Cox, Jane Harman, Donna Brazile, Joe Klein, Jessica Stern

BYLINE: Wolf Blitzer, Satinder Bindra, Stu Rothenberg, Ken Pollack, Kelly McCann, Bruce Morton

HIGHLIGHT:
Interview with Richard Gephardt. Then, Cox and Harman discuss security.

BODY:
BLITZER: Understandably so. Thanks very much.

Satinder Bindra reporting from Baghdad.

Let's turn to presidential politics right here in the United States. In just two weeks, voters will have their first say in a major contest of this year's campaign-namely, the Iowa caucuses.

The one candidate who's close to catching front-runner Howard Dean in Iowa is Missouri congressman, former U.S. House Democratic leader Richard Gephardt. Also, John Kerry of Massachusetts, we're told, also has, according to, at least, some of the polls, a shot at capturing both Gephardt and Howard Dean.

Earlier today, I spoke with Dick Gephardt.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Congressman Gephardt, welcome back to "LATE EDITION."

Is it fair to say it's do or die for you, politically, right now in Iowa?

REP. RICHARD GEPHARDT (D-MO), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, Wolf, I'm going to win in Iowa, because the ideas I'm talking about are bold, and they are resonating with voters out here in Iowa.

I've got the best health care plan to get everybody covered. I've got an Apollo 21 energy plan that will make us independent of Middle Eastern oil. And my trade idea of international minimum wage is really getting people's attention out here.

BLITZER: You've won Iowa in 1988, but you ran out of money shortly thereafter and had to drop out of the presidential contest. There are some suggestions that could happen this time as well.

GEPHARDT: Not going to happen, Wolf. We've raised much more money than we did in the late '80s. We've got plenty of money to get through the early primaries.

We're running ads right now in Oklahoma and in Michigan. And we're going to win in Iowa, and we're going to do well in the other early states.

I'm going to win this nomination, and I'm going to beat George Bush.

BLITZER: Howard Dean, in the last quarter, raised about $14 million, $15 million. You raised, I think, close to $4 million. What happened? Why is he able to generate so much fund-raising, and you're not?

GEPHARDT: Well, he's done a good job of fund-raising, there's no doubt about it. But you got to look at two things. You got to look at how much people spend. He's spending a lot of money.

And again, we have adequate funds to get through all these early primaries. We're running ads, as I said, in a couple of states. We're putting mail out in other states. We're doing great here in Iowa. We've run a fabulous campaign. We've got the help of 21 international labor unions, and I've got the best message.

I just don't think Howard Dean can win this race against George Bush, and I think a lot of Democrats are beginning to understand that. He can't take Bush on on trade, he can't take him on Medicare.

BLITZER: Yet he's generating so much excitement among core Democrats, if you take a look at the registered Democrats in the national polls. He's on the cover, once again, the new issues of Newsweek and Time.

Why did this relatively little-known governor from a small state in New England emerge from the pack and become the front-runner?

GEPHARDT: Well, you know, the national polls and who's ahead doesn't really mean very much right now. You've got to win primaries. There's a pattern to this race. You got to win in Iowa, you got to keep going, and you got to get more delegates than the other candidates.

He faces the same test that I do and everybody else does. And just who raised the most money in the last quarter doesn't mean that much.

BLITZER: In the new CNN-Time magazine poll-we'll put it up on the screen-in a choice between you and Howard Dean, look at this: Among registered Democrats, he gets 53 percent; you get 28 percent. That seems like a pretty lopsided outcome.

GEPHARDT: But again, Wolf, that's a national poll. You got to look at what happens here in Iowa, then in New Hampshire, then in the other early states.

There's a pattern, there is a pace to this thing. And once you start getting good results, which I will get here in Iowa, this race is going to change completely, and those national polls will change dramatically.

BLITZER: Why is it that you-you've been around for more than a quarter of century, you've been a leader here in Washington, you ran for president once before. He came out of seemingly nowhere and is doing so remarkably well, and at least right now, according to the national polls, you're not doing that well.

GEPHARDT: Well, again, you can't look at just national polls. You've got to look at what's happening in these other states.

But let me say it again. As voters begin to look at what he has said on foreign policy, his ability to go up against Bush on trade, on Medicare-he said in the mid-'90s that Medicare was the worst federal program ever, that it should have never happened. That's not a stand that will allow him to take on George Bush and win this race.

BLITZER: You've also become-you're becoming increasingly more vocal in your criticism of Howard Dean. Let me play this soundbite from what you said in Des Moines on Friday. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEPHARDT: There's a pattern with Governor Dean. First, say something indefensible, then deny you ever said it. Then when it's proven you said it, don't tell anybody why you said it. And then go and say it all over again. If you're confused, imagine how Governor Dean must feel.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Is he qualified, in your opinion, to be president of the United States?

GEPHARDT: Well, I think I'm more qualified to be president of the United States. And when he takes positions and then says he didn't take that position and then says that we're all lying about his position, it makes him in a bad place to take on George Bush and win this race.

Look, we need a candidate who can take on George Bush and defeat him on issues like trade, on issues like Medicare, on issues like assault weapons ban and the Brady bill and how we deal with gun safety legislation.

This man is not in a place where he can take on and defeat George Bush. We have to defeat George Bush.

BLITZER: Let me rephrase the question, or restate the question. Is he qualified to be president of the United States?

GEPHARDT: I think I am much more qualified to be president of the United States. I think I can beat George Bush, because I have the most experience. I have translated that experience into the boldest and best ideas that are resonant with America's voters. And I can beat George Bush in the Midwest, which is where you've got to beat him. You've got to beat him in the states like Missouri and Illinois.

BLITZER: I understand you feel you're more qualified, but is he qualified?

GEPHARDT: I think I'm more qualified than he is. I really believe I can beat George Bush, and...

BLITZER: You're not going to tell me if you think he's qualified?

GEPHARDT: ... I'm not sure that Howard Dean can, with his stand on the issues, and some of the statements he's made on foreign policy, and the way he has dealt with his own positions, saying that everybody's lying about what he's already said.

BLITZER: Can I conclude from what you just said that you don't think he's qualified to be president?

GEPHARDT: Wolf, I think I'm more qualified than he is. I think he's going to have real trouble beating George Bush with the positions he's taken and the statements that he's made. I just think he's going to have real...

BLITZER: Let me play one of those statements that's caused him some grief, a statement he made about the capture of Saddam Hussein. Let's play it right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD DEAN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The capture of Saddam is a good thing, which I hope very much will keep our soldiers in Iraq and around the world safer. But the capture of Saddam has not made America safer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: He reiterated that in recent days in the aftermath of the alert, the terror alert status going up to orange here in the United States, all these planes coming in, escorted, delayed, security anxieties around the country.

Is Howard Dean right, that the capture of Saddam Hussein, in his words, has not made America safer?

GEPHARDT: Wolf, I don't think anybody believes that the capture of Saddam Hussein was not a good thing and did not make America safer. I think that's the kind of statement that calls into question Howard's ability to deal with foreign-policy issues.

Another statement he made was that we shouldn't prejudge Osama bin Laden, that we shouldn't rush to judgment about Osama bin Laden. I mean, nobody I think believes that.

These are the kind of statements that call into question his ability to deal with these important foreign-policy issues.

BLITZER: Well, later he did clarify his statement, or expand on it, suggesting that Osama bin Laden certainly did deserve the death sentence. Presumably, you agree with him on that.

GEPHARDT: I do agree with him. Osama bin Laden gloated about having run an attack on the United States that resulted in the deaths of 3,000 Americans. He is one of the worst people that ever lived in history, and most Americans want him executed and want him dealt with harshly. And to say that we shouldn't prejudge him is just a ludicrous statement.

BLITZER: Was Howard Dean on the right course when he asked Terry McAuliffe, the chairman of the Democratic Party, to intervene with the eight other Democratic candidates, to lower the rhetoric so that the eventual nominee-and he would like, of course, that nominee to be himself, Howard Dean-that the nominee wouldn't be damaged in the running up to the election?

GEPHARDT: Not at all. Look, you always have debates in campaigns. You talk about issues. You try to get different stances and positions out, and you discuss it. That's what's going on here.

I guess Howard is uncomfortable discussing the issues, discussing some of his past positions. If I had some of his past positions, I guess I wouldn't want to debate about it either.

BLITZER: Yet he's getting all these endorsements, as you well remember, of course, all of our viewers in the United States and around the world remember, the former Vice President Al Gore endorsed him.

But look at what Senator Tom Harkin, your colleague from Iowa, is quoted as saying in The Los Angeles Times on Saturday: "I happen to like Governor Dean. I like his combativeness. I like the fact that he seems to be bringing a lot of new people into the party."

He didn't say he was going to endorse him, but he is saying very nice things about him.

GEPHARDT: Well, everybody says good things about many people, as we go along. That's not what's important here. The people in Iowa are going to make this decision. Endorsements are great. We all have endorsements. We all want more endorsements, but the people make the decision.

And they're going to decide this on who can be the best candidate to take on and defeat George Bush, and I believe I'm that candidate, and I believe that's what voters are going to decide here and in a lot of other states.

BLITZER: Bottom line, do you believe Howard Dean would be another George McGovern or Michael Dukakis, in taking the Democratic Party to defeat against the Republican presidential candidate?

GEPHARDT: Wolf, I think I have a much better opportunity and chance to defeat George Bush than Howard Dean or any of the other candidates. I believe I can compete with him on ideas. I believe my experience will match up against his. I think my foreign-policy experience matches up better against his than Howard Dean's. And I think I can beat George Bush in states like Missouri and Illinois and Ohio, those Midwestern states where we really have to beat George Bush.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

Content and programming Copyright 2004 Cable News Network Transcribed under license by FDCH e-Media, Inc.